World Gene Expansion Challenge 2021

Author	Message
Buro87 [Lombardia] Send message Joined: 23 Nov 16 Posts: 100 Credit: 4,000,541 RAC: 0	Message 2252 - Posted: 8 Mar 2021, 23:08:04 UTC - in response to Message 2251.
in addition to what Valterc said you need to consider that 8wu per core is already limited buffer. For cpu with 64thread or less, considering the average wu duration equal around 30hours buffer.. It's not a lot Even a 512wu per hos limit could be considered low. Nowadays a 128thread machine is not so rare to find on a boinc projet in the future they will grow further their number
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Jeff Send message Joined: 30 Jun 20 Posts: 2 Credit: 943,408 RAC: 0	Message 2253 - Posted: 9 Mar 2021, 7:29:11 UTC
It appears we cannot join this challenge as an individual? I have tried to find my team captain and it seems there is not one anymore, cannot find any new reference documents on the groups leader....
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Luigi R. Send message Joined: 1 Mar 15 Posts: 4 Credit: 2,060,645 RAC: 0	Message 2254 - Posted: 9 Mar 2021, 7:51:17 UTC - in response to Message 2253.
It appears we cannot join this challenge as an individual? You can't because it's a team challenge and I didn't implement anything like that. I have tried to find my team captain and it seems there is not one anymore, cannot find any new reference documents on the groups leader.... Join an in-challenge team or create your own team (and make a request to me).
ID: 2254 · Reply Quote

Bryn Mawr Send message Joined: 23 Jun 20 Posts: 44 Credit: 14,260,228 RAC: 0	Message 2255 - Posted: 9 Mar 2021, 10:12:54 UTC - in response to Message 2253.
It appears we cannot join this challenge as an individual? I have tried to find my team captain and it seems there is not one anymore, cannot find any new reference documents on the groups leader.... Stage a coup and take over the team leadership yourself :-)
ID: 2255 · Reply Quote

Jeff Send message Joined: 30 Jun 20 Posts: 2 Credit: 943,408 RAC: 0	Message 2256 - Posted: 9 Mar 2021, 16:16:01 UTC - in response to Message 2255.
It appears we cannot join this challenge as an individual? I have tried to find my team captain and it seems there is not one anymore, cannot find any new reference documents on the groups leader.... Stage a coup and take over the team leadership yourself :-) Wouldn't know where to start even if I could, because don't you need a password or something to take over the group's info? lol
ID: 2256 · Reply Quote

Bryn Mawr Send message Joined: 23 Jun 20 Posts: 44 Credit: 14,260,228 RAC: 0	Message 2257 - Posted: 9 Mar 2021, 16:47:19 UTC - in response to Message 2256.
It appears we cannot join this challenge as an individual? I have tried to find my team captain and it seems there is not one anymore, cannot find any new reference documents on the groups leader.... Stage a coup and take over the team leadership yourself :-) Wouldn't know where to start even if I could, because don't you need a password or something to take over the group's info? lol No password, go into my account, click on your team name near the top right and then initiate a request for a team founder ship change about 2/3 of the way down that page.
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Michael H.W. Weber Send message Joined: 11 Oct 16 Posts: 3 Credit: 2,665,979 RAC: 0	Message 2259 - Posted: 9 Mar 2021, 22:29:51 UTC Last modified: 9 Mar 2021, 22:30:09 UTC
It would be nice if you could ensure that the server is loaded with tasks when announcing a challenge. Our systems have completely run out of work and are now sitting idle. Michael. ____________ President of Rechenkraft.net - Germany's first and only Distributed Computing Organization.
ID: 2259 · Reply Quote

xii5ku Send message Joined: 20 Jul 17 Posts: 14 Credit: 35,953,451 RAC: 0	Message 2261 - Posted: 10 Mar 2021, 9:45:42 UTC - in response to Message 2259. Last modified: 10 Mar 2021, 9:49:16 UTC
Michael H.W. Weber wrote: It would be nice if you could ensure that the server is loaded with tasks when announcing a challenge. Our systems have completely run out of work and are now sitting idle. Through the last several years at least, almost all contests at TN-Grid worked like this. It is well known and documented in several forum threads that the rate of work generation is very limited. What we don't know (yet) is whether or not a large number of WUs could be generated in advance during a period of low demand. (E.g. if new WUs depend on results of old WUs, then this might not be possible.) The project admin could certainly answer this. But if work generation in advance would be possible, then the immediate next question would be how many to produce in advance. This would be impossible to answer well, because (1.) participation in past contests changed from one to another obviously, and (2.) in those contests with good participation, the available computer capacity cannot be determined in retrospect because total contest throughput was capped by work generator throughput.
ID: 2261 · Reply Quote

Boone Send message Joined: 10 Apr 20 Posts: 1 Credit: 1,964,482 RAC: 0	Message 2262 - Posted: 10 Mar 2021, 12:09:37 UTC - in response to Message 2234.
I've read here about 20 teams, on BoincStats are only 18 teams, "In Science We Trust" and "Wolrdwide Techservices" are not listed there. Which one is the "official" ranking for the challenge ? In Science We Trust and Worldwide TechServices asked me to join on BOINC Rankings. Hopefully we will try to merge them and there will be no problems if team gaps are large enough. (...) I understand that there are actually 2 Rankings (BoincStats vs BoincRankings). Since ISWT is at first place in BoincRankings, but not listed in the BoincStats-Challenge this is really weird. I asssume, BoincStats is the official one? Thank you in advance for clearing this up.
ID: 2262 · Reply Quote

Aurum Send message Joined: 18 Jul 18 Posts: 97 Credit: 291,386,295 RAC: 0	Message 2263 - Posted: 10 Mar 2021, 15:57:24 UTC - in response to Message 2251.
That's why I'm confidant that switching the server to supply only 2 WUs per CPU thread would work great and mean that one could only bunker about 8 hours of work instead of several days worth. Theoretically. If you really want to maximize your cache of workunits you could also lie about the number of cores (say that you just have 8 but you can easily tell the server that you have 128) or (although not so easy to implement) you may also start a lot of different clients on the same pc. So, at the end, if you really want, you may bypass any server side limitations. On the other hand, forcing a small user's cache will create problems to users with intermittent network activity. I heard that some at SETI did that. They made a custom BOINC client or something like that. Claimed it helped them make it through workless Tuesdays. I switched back to Resource Zero.
ID: 2263 · Reply Quote

valterc Project administrator Project tester Send message Joined: 30 Oct 13 Posts: 623 Credit: 34,677,535 RAC: 1	Message 2264 - Posted: 10 Mar 2021, 18:54:32 UTC - in response to Message 2263. Last modified: 10 Mar 2021, 18:55:57 UTC
I heard that some at SETI did that. They made a custom BOINC client or something like that. Claimed it helped them make it through workless Tuesdays. It is very easy, just use the following cc_config.xml option <ncpus>N</ncpus> Act as if there were N CPUs; e.g. to simulate 2 CPUs on a machine that has only 1. Zero means use the actual number of CPUs. Don't use this to limit CPU usage; use computing preferences instead.
ID: 2264 · Reply Quote

Buro87 [Lombardia] Send message Joined: 23 Nov 16 Posts: 100 Credit: 4,000,541 RAC: 0	Message 2265 - Posted: 11 Mar 2021, 19:56:41 UTC - in response to Message 2262.
I understand that there are actually 2 Rankings (BoincStats vs BoincRankings). Since ISWT is at first place in BoincRankings, but not listed in the BoincStats-Challenge this is really weird. I asssume, BoincStats is the official one? Thank you in advance for clearing this up. I apologize for this confusion. Our plan was to integrate the BOINCstats ranking with ours, in order to include the teams that failed to sign up from BOINCstats. Since everything is going smoothly, we can consider BOINC Rankings to be the official one. Hence, BOINCstats will be used as a backup. I apologize again for not making this clear.
ID: 2265 · Reply Quote

Buro87 [Lombardia] Send message Joined: 23 Nov 16 Posts: 100 Credit: 4,000,541 RAC: 0	Message 2269 - Posted: 14 Mar 2021, 19:50:51 UTC - in response to Message 2265. Last modified: 14 Mar 2021, 19:52:54 UTC
Thanks you all, TN-grid broke the 30.000 GFLOPS barrier for the first time :)
ID: 2269 · Reply Quote

Buro87 [Lombardia] Send message Joined: 23 Nov 16 Posts: 100 Credit: 4,000,541 RAC: 0	Message 2270 - Posted: 15 Mar 2021, 15:43:43 UTC - in response to Message 2269. Last modified: 15 Mar 2021, 15:46:00 UTC
CHALENGE IS OVER !!! Here the final ranking: http://boincrankings.eu5.org/wgec21/classifica.php?id=1000 Congratulation to Planet 3DNow! for the victory Congratulation to In Science We Trust for 2nd place Congratulation to Boinc.Italy for 3rd place Special thanks to Aurum, GIPICS, and eiernacken1983 for providing all this power which allowed them to lead the user' ranking Thanks you all for joining. Even with some difficulties due to low wu availability, the challenge was a success.. 21 TEAMS produced 34.994.000 CREDITS (double the result of the previous edition) here are some estimates of the work done during the challenge: - almost 260.000 wu completed - 440 genes processed Thanks again and see you at next year's challenge :)
ID: 2270 · Reply Quote

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Buro87 [Lombardia]
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Joined: 23 Nov 16
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in addition to what Valterc said you need to consider that 8wu per core is already limited buffer.
For cpu with 64thread or less, considering the average wu duration equal around 30hours buffer.. It's not a lot

Even a 512wu per hos limit could be considered low.
Nowadays a 128thread machine is not so rare to find on a boinc projet
in the future they will grow further their number

ID: 2252 · Reply Quote

Jeff
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Joined: 30 Jun 20
Posts: 2
Credit: 943,408
RAC: 0

It appears we cannot join this challenge as an individual?

I have tried to find my team captain and it seems there is not one anymore, cannot find any new reference documents on the groups leader....

ID: 2253 · Reply Quote

Luigi R.
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Joined: 1 Mar 15
Posts: 4
Credit: 2,060,645
RAC: 0

It appears we cannot join this challenge as an individual?

You can't because it's a team challenge and I didn't implement anything like that.

I have tried to find my team captain and it seems there is not one anymore, cannot find any new reference documents on the groups leader....

Join an in-challenge team or create your own team (and make a request to me).

ID: 2254 · Reply Quote

Bryn Mawr
Send message
Joined: 23 Jun 20
Posts: 44
Credit: 14,260,228
RAC: 0

It appears we cannot join this challenge as an individual?

I have tried to find my team captain and it seems there is not one anymore, cannot find any new reference documents on the groups leader....

Stage a coup and take over the team leadership yourself :-)

ID: 2255 · Reply Quote

Jeff
Send message
Joined: 30 Jun 20
Posts: 2
Credit: 943,408
RAC: 0

It appears we cannot join this challenge as an individual?

I have tried to find my team captain and it seems there is not one anymore, cannot find any new reference documents on the groups leader....

Stage a coup and take over the team leadership yourself :-)

Wouldn't know where to start even if I could, because don't you need a password or something to take over the group's info? lol

ID: 2256 · Reply Quote

Bryn Mawr
Send message
Joined: 23 Jun 20
Posts: 44
Credit: 14,260,228
RAC: 0

It appears we cannot join this challenge as an individual?

I have tried to find my team captain and it seems there is not one anymore, cannot find any new reference documents on the groups leader....

Stage a coup and take over the team leadership yourself :-)

Wouldn't know where to start even if I could, because don't you need a password or something to take over the group's info? lol

No password, go into my account, click on your team name near the top right and then initiate a request for a team founder ship change about 2/3 of the way down that page.

ID: 2257 · Reply Quote

Michael H.W. Weber
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Joined: 11 Oct 16
Posts: 3
Credit: 2,665,979
RAC: 0

It would be nice if you could ensure that the server is loaded with tasks when announcing a challenge.
Our systems have completely run out of work and are now sitting idle.

Michael.
____________
President of Rechenkraft.net - Germany's first and only Distributed Computing Organization.

ID: 2259 · Reply Quote

xii5ku
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Joined: 20 Jul 17
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20,000,000 credits

Michael H.W. Weber wrote:

It would be nice if you could ensure that the server is loaded with tasks when announcing a challenge.
Our systems have completely run out of work and are now sitting idle.

Through the last several years at least, almost all contests at TN-Grid worked like this.

It is well known and documented in several forum threads that the rate of work generation is very limited.
What we don't know (yet) is whether or not a large number of WUs could be generated in advance during a period of low demand. (E.g. if new WUs depend on results of old WUs, then this might not be possible.) The project admin could certainly answer this.

But if work generation in advance would be possible, then the immediate next question would be how many to produce in advance. This would be impossible to answer well, because (1.) participation in past contests changed from one to another obviously, and (2.) in those contests with good participation, the available computer capacity cannot be determined in retrospect because total contest throughput was capped by work generator throughput.

ID: 2261 · Reply Quote

Boone
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I've read here about 20 teams, on BoincStats are only 18 teams, "In Science We Trust" and "Wolrdwide Techservices" are not listed there.
Which one is the "official" ranking for the challenge ?

In Science We Trust and Worldwide TechServices asked me to join on BOINC Rankings.
Hopefully we will try to merge them and there will be no problems if team gaps are large enough. (...)

I understand that there are actually 2 Rankings (BoincStats vs BoincRankings). Since ISWT is at first place in BoincRankings, but not listed in the BoincStats-Challenge this is really weird.
I asssume, BoincStats is the official one?
Thank you in advance for clearing this up.

ID: 2262 · Reply Quote

Aurum
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That's why I'm confidant that switching the server to supply only 2 WUs per CPU thread would work great and mean that one could only bunker about 8 hours of work instead of several days worth.

Theoretically. If you really want to maximize your cache of workunits you could also lie about the number of cores (say that you just have 8 but you can easily tell the server that you have 128) or (although not so easy to implement) you may also start a lot of different clients on the same pc. So, at the end, if you really want, you may bypass any server side limitations.
On the other hand, forcing a small user's cache will create problems to users with intermittent network activity.

I heard that some at SETI did that. They made a custom BOINC client or something like that. Claimed it helped them make it through workless Tuesdays.

I switched back to Resource Zero.

ID: 2263 · Reply Quote

valterc
Project administrator
Project tester
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Credit: 34,677,535
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I heard that some at SETI did that. They made a custom BOINC client or something like that. Claimed it helped them make it through workless Tuesdays.

It is very easy, just use the following cc_config.xml option

<ncpus>N</ncpus> Act as if there were N CPUs; e.g. to simulate 2 CPUs on a machine that has only 1. Zero means use the actual number of CPUs. Don't use this to limit CPU usage; use computing preferences instead.

ID: 2264 · Reply Quote

Buro87 [Lombardia]
Send message
Joined: 23 Nov 16
Posts: 100
Credit: 4,000,541
RAC: 0

I understand that there are actually 2 Rankings (BoincStats vs BoincRankings). Since ISWT is at first place in BoincRankings, but not listed in the BoincStats-Challenge this is really weird.
I asssume, BoincStats is the official one?
Thank you in advance for clearing this up.

I apologize for this confusion.
Our plan was to integrate the BOINCstats ranking with ours, in order to include the teams that failed to sign up from BOINCstats.
Since everything is going smoothly, we can consider BOINC Rankings to be the official one.
Hence, BOINCstats will be used as a backup.
I apologize again for not making this clear.

ID: 2265 · Reply Quote

Buro87 [Lombardia]
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Joined: 23 Nov 16
Posts: 100
Credit: 4,000,541
RAC: 0

Thanks you all, TN-grid broke the 30.000 GFLOPS barrier for the first time :)

ID: 2269 · Reply Quote

Buro87 [Lombardia]
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CHALENGE IS OVER !!!

Here the final ranking: http://boincrankings.eu5.org/wgec21/classifica.php?id=1000

Congratulation to Planet 3DNow! for the victory
Congratulation to In Science We Trust for 2nd place
Congratulation to Boinc.Italy for 3rd place

Special thanks to Aurum, GIPICS, and eiernacken1983 for providing all this power which allowed them to lead the user' ranking

Thanks you all for joining.
Even with some difficulties due to low wu availability, the challenge was a success..

21 TEAMS produced 34.994.000 CREDITS (double the result of the previous edition)

here are some estimates of the work done during the challenge:

- almost 260.000 wu completed
- 440 genes processed

Thanks again and see you at next year's challenge :)

ID: 2270 · Reply Quote