FMA application for windows_x86

Author	Message
Aurum Send message Joined: 18 Jul 18 Posts: 97 Credit: 291,386,295 RAC: 0	Message 2201 - Posted: 13 Feb 2021, 18:06:48 UTC - in response to Message 2186.
Other important factors while comparing computers, for our application, are the RAM speed and CPU cache size. I'd like to learn about this.
ID: 2201 · Reply Quote

Mr P Hucker Send message Joined: 29 Sep 17 Posts: 37 Credit: 584,834 RAC: 0	Message 2202 - Posted: 13 Feb 2021, 18:19:10 UTC - in response to Message 2201. Last modified: 13 Feb 2021, 18:19:18 UTC
Other important factors while comparing computers, for our application, are the RAM speed and CPU cache size. I'd like to learn about this. I changed my PC from single channel to dual channel RAM, effectively doubling the RAM speed, but nothing went faster, not one of the 10 projects I run. I guess the cache inside the CPU outweighed the slow RAM.
ID: 2202 · Reply Quote

Keith Myers Send message Joined: 26 Jun 20 Posts: 64 Credit: 15,299,594 RAC: 0	Message 2203 - Posted: 14 Feb 2021, 1:36:37 UTC - in response to Message 2202.
Depends on the science application and whether most of the application memory read/writes can fit in the cpu L3 cache. Some projects really can be sped up if the work can fit all in the L3 cache. Other projects don't really need to do much data movement out to main memory until the task compute is entirely finished. So the speed of main memory is not that important since only two accesses are needed, once to get the data into the cpu and once out to main memory and storage to upload the result. As with most things related to BOINC, YMMV depending on individual project quirks.
ID: 2203 · Reply Quote

Aurum Send message Joined: 18 Jul 18 Posts: 97 Credit: 291,386,295 RAC: 0	Message 2205 - Posted: 14 Feb 2021, 14:57:42 UTC - in response to Message 2200.
Is there any way to trigger the Instruction Set retest??? I ran CPU Benchmarks. Two computers changed a lot and that triggered it. Several computers are obviously running a slower IS. Wish I had a Trigger button to push.
ID: 2205 · Reply Quote

Mr P Hucker Send message Joined: 29 Sep 17 Posts: 37 Credit: 584,834 RAC: 0	Message 2206 - Posted: 14 Feb 2021, 17:59:16 UTC - in response to Message 2203.
Depends on the science application and whether most of the application memory read/writes can fit in the cpu L3 cache. Some projects really can be sped up if the work can fit all in the L3 cache. Other projects don't really need to do much data movement out to main memory until the task compute is entirely finished. So the speed of main memory is not that important since only two accesses are needed, once to get the data into the cpu and once out to main memory and storage to upload the result. As with most things related to BOINC, YMMV depending on individual project quirks. Maybe those projects that don't quite fit in the cache are only using RAM occasionally, so my doubling of the RAM speed was still negligible. It didn't speed up the game Fallout 4 either, despite people saying that game in particular would be faster. I guess the Ryzen has a good large cache.
ID: 2206 · Reply Quote

Aurum Send message Joined: 18 Jul 18 Posts: 97 Credit: 291,386,295 RAC: 0	Message 2207 - Posted: 15 Feb 2021, 17:30:16 UTC - in response to Message 2205. Last modified: 15 Feb 2021, 17:30:39 UTC
Is there any way to trigger the Instruction Set retest??? I ran CPU Benchmarks. Two computers changed a lot and that triggered it. Several computers are obviously running a slower IS. Wish I had a Trigger button to push. Tried Resetting the project and also detaching and attaching. Neither work. Still have computers stuck on the slow IS. I guess I have to learn how to configure an app_info file to force the correct IS.
ID: 2207 · Reply Quote

Aurum Send message Joined: 18 Jul 18 Posts: 97 Credit: 291,386,295 RAC: 0	Message 2209 - Posted: 15 Feb 2021, 20:11:07 UTC
Placing this app_info.xml file in my project folder switched from avx to fma: <app_info> <app> <name>gene_pcim</name> </app> <file_info> <name>gene_pcim_v1.10_linux64__fma</name> <executable/> </file_info> <app_version> <app_name>gene_pcim</app_name> <version_num>110</version_num> <avg_ncpus>1.000000</avg_ncpus> <flops>6420118510.968211</flops> <plan_class>fma</plan_class> <api_version>7.9.0</api_version> <file_ref> <file_name>gene_pcim_v1.10_linux64__fma</file_name> <main_program/> </file_ref> </app_version> </app_info> Has a different Application Name displayed in BoincTasks but it seems to be working good so far.
ID: 2209 · Reply Quote

Keith Myers Send message Joined: 26 Jun 20 Posts: 64 Credit: 15,299,594 RAC: 0	Message 2210 - Posted: 16 Feb 2021, 1:24:07 UTC
Yes, that is the brute force method. Good job constructing a valid app_info.xml without dumping all your work. Helps that all the apps have the distinct plan_class and basic naming schemes. But as has been mentioned you will only gain maybe 400-600 seconds better times at best.
ID: 2210 · Reply Quote

Aurum Send message Joined: 18 Jul 18 Posts: 97 Credit: 291,386,295 RAC: 0	Message 2211 - Posted: 16 Feb 2021, 17:52:48 UTC Last modified: 16 Feb 2021, 18:05:03 UTC
And I get a better Application Name: gene_pcim (fma) It only makes sense that all i9s should work best using the same instruction set. Now to sort out the i7s and Xeon E5s. From what I've seen on i9 new builds that start with a fresh slate and run the test over all 3 instruction sets I'm seeing 7% improvement of fma over avx and 4% for fma over sse2.
ID: 2211 · Reply Quote

klepel Send message Joined: 13 Sep 17 Posts: 4 Credit: 89,201,015 RAC: 0	Message 2213 - Posted: 19 Feb 2021, 15:22:52 UTC - in response to Message 2209.
Placing this app_info.xml file in my project folder switched from avx to fma: <app_info> <app> <name>gene_pcim</name> </app> <file_info> <name>gene_pcim_v1.10_linux64__fma</name> <executable/> </file_info> <app_version> <app_name>gene_pcim</app_name> <version_num>110</version_num> <avg_ncpus>1.000000</avg_ncpus> <flops>6420118510.968211</flops> <plan_class>fma</plan_class> <api_version>7.9.0</api_version> <file_ref> <file_name>gene_pcim_v1.10_linux64__fma</file_name> <main_program/> </file_ref> </app_version> </app_info> Has a different Application Name displayed in BoincTasks but it seems to be working good so far. A wish came true! I will try this app_info on my AMD 3950x, hope this will change the WU from sse2 to fma.
ID: 2213 · Reply Quote

Yuriy Naydenov Send message Joined: 22 Jun 19 Posts: 6 Credit: 5,284,099 RAC: 0	Message 2326 - Posted: 19 Jun 2021, 10:43:28 UTC Last modified: 19 Jun 2021, 10:47:52 UTC
On my FX-8370, FMA jobs fail. http://gene.disi.unitn.it/test/results.php?hostid=49138&offset=0&show_names=0&state=6&appid=
ID: 2326 · Reply Quote

Jim1348 Send message Joined: 29 Dec 16 Posts: 87 Credit: 21,013,002 RAC: 0	Message 2327 - Posted: 19 Jun 2021, 12:38:40 UTC - in response to Message 2211. Last modified: 19 Jun 2021, 12:52:56 UTC
It only makes sense that all i9s should work best using the same instruction set. From what I've seen on i9 new builds that start with a fresh slate and run the test over all 3 instruction sets I'm seeing 7% improvement of fma over avx and 4% for fma over sse2. As far back as my log goes, to 6 June, my i9-10900F was running avx. Then on 17 June it switched over to sse2, with no obvious change in the run times. I will try forcing it to fma. I don't want to wait until Christmas to see what happens. As I recall, my i7-8700 ended up on fma eventually, as did my Ryzen 3000s. For some reason, this project favors Intel. That is not always the case.
ID: 2327 · Reply Quote

Jim1348 Send message Joined: 29 Dec 16 Posts: 87 Credit: 21,013,002 RAC: 0	Message 2328 - Posted: 19 Jun 2021, 17:03:44 UTC - in response to Message 2327.
As far back as my log goes, to 6 June, my i9-10900F was running avx. Then on 17 June it switched over to sse2, with no obvious change in the run times. I will try forcing it to fma. FMA brought it down from 3:17 (with avx or sse2) to 3:10. Nice, but no big deal.
ID: 2328 · Reply Quote

bozz4science Send message Joined: 17 May 20 Posts: 29 Credit: 1,815,574 RAC: 0	Message 2330 - Posted: 20 Jun 2021, 7:53:15 UTC - in response to Message 2213.
How would the app_info.xml file look like for a Win10 machine? Tried various ways, but none worked for me. Any pointer highly appreciated. Thx
ID: 2330 · Reply Quote

valterc Project administrator Project tester Send message Joined: 30 Oct 13 Posts: 623 Credit: 34,677,535 RAC: 9	Message 2331 - Posted: 20 Jun 2021, 17:08:14 UTC - in response to Message 2326.
On my FX-8370, FMA jobs fail. http://gene.disi.unitn.it/test/results.php?hostid=49138&offset=0&show_names=0&state=6&appid= That was the main reason I kept FMA for Windows as beta. I guess that in your case a MB BIOS upgrade might help. I moved the FMA/Win64 app out of beta a few days ago, to see if the old problems were solved, I will probably switch it back to beta...
ID: 2331 · Reply Quote

Yuriy Naydenov Send message Joined: 22 Jun 19 Posts: 6 Credit: 5,284,099 RAC: 0	Message 2333 - Posted: 21 Jun 2021, 11:36:10 UTC - in response to Message 2331.
On my FX-8370, FMA jobs fail. http://gene.disi.unitn.it/test/results.php?hostid=49138&offset=0&show_names=0&state=6&appid= I guess that in your case a MB BIOS upgrade might help. ASUS Sabertooth 990FX R2.0, BIOS latest version 2901.
ID: 2333 · Reply Quote

valterc Project administrator Project tester Send message Joined: 30 Oct 13 Posts: 623 Credit: 34,677,535 RAC: 9	Message 2334 - Posted: 21 Jun 2021, 12:32:33 UTC - in response to Message 2333.
On my FX-8370, FMA jobs fail. http://gene.disi.unitn.it/test/results.php?hostid=49138&offset=0&show_names=0&state=6&appid= I guess that in your case a MB BIOS upgrade might help. ASUS Sabertooth 990FX R2.0, BIOS latest version 2901. Well, I don't know how to solve your particular problem... In the meantime I moved the FMA Win64 application to beta again. If someone would like to give it a try please enable beta applications in your TN-Grid preferences.
ID: 2334 · Reply Quote

Yuriy Naydenov Send message Joined: 22 Jun 19 Posts: 6 Credit: 5,284,099 RAC: 0	Message 2335 - Posted: 21 Jun 2021, 14:55:14 UTC - in response to Message 2334.
On my FX-8370, FMA jobs fail. http://gene.disi.unitn.it/test/results.php?hostid=49138&offset=0&show_names=0&state=6&appid= I guess that in your case a MB BIOS upgrade might help. ASUS Sabertooth 990FX R2.0, BIOS latest version 2901. Well, I don't know how to solve your particular problem... Never mind! )
ID: 2335 · Reply Quote

Author

Message

Aurum
Send message
Joined: 18 Jul 18
Posts: 97
Credit: 291,386,295
RAC: 0

Other important factors while comparing computers, for our application, are the RAM speed and CPU cache size.

I'd like to learn about this.

ID: 2201 · Reply Quote

Mr P Hucker
Send message
Joined: 29 Sep 17
Posts: 37
Credit: 584,834
RAC: 0

Other important factors while comparing computers, for our application, are the RAM speed and CPU cache size.

I'd like to learn about this.

I changed my PC from single channel to dual channel RAM, effectively doubling the RAM speed, but nothing went faster, not one of the 10 projects I run. I guess the cache inside the CPU outweighed the slow RAM.

ID: 2202 · Reply Quote

Keith Myers
Send message
Joined: 26 Jun 20
Posts: 64
Credit: 15,299,594
RAC: 0

Depends on the science application and whether most of the application memory read/writes can fit in the cpu L3 cache.

Some projects really can be sped up if the work can fit all in the L3 cache.

Other projects don't really need to do much data movement out to main memory until the task compute is entirely finished.

So the speed of main memory is not that important since only two accesses are needed, once to get the data into the cpu and once out to main memory and storage to upload the result.

As with most things related to BOINC, YMMV depending on individual project quirks.

ID: 2203 · Reply Quote

Aurum
Send message
Joined: 18 Jul 18
Posts: 97
Credit: 291,386,295
RAC: 0

Is there any way to trigger the Instruction Set retest???

I ran CPU Benchmarks. Two computers changed a lot and that triggered it.
Several computers are obviously running a slower IS. Wish I had a Trigger button to push.

ID: 2205 · Reply Quote

Mr P Hucker
Send message
Joined: 29 Sep 17
Posts: 37
Credit: 584,834
RAC: 0

Depends on the science application and whether most of the application memory read/writes can fit in the cpu L3 cache.

Some projects really can be sped up if the work can fit all in the L3 cache.

Other projects don't really need to do much data movement out to main memory until the task compute is entirely finished.

So the speed of main memory is not that important since only two accesses are needed, once to get the data into the cpu and once out to main memory and storage to upload the result.

As with most things related to BOINC, YMMV depending on individual project quirks.

Maybe those projects that don't quite fit in the cache are only using RAM occasionally, so my doubling of the RAM speed was still negligible. It didn't speed up the game Fallout 4 either, despite people saying that game in particular would be faster. I guess the Ryzen has a good large cache.

ID: 2206 · Reply Quote

Aurum
Send message
Joined: 18 Jul 18
Posts: 97
Credit: 291,386,295
RAC: 0

Is there any way to trigger the Instruction Set retest???

I ran CPU Benchmarks. Two computers changed a lot and that triggered it.
Several computers are obviously running a slower IS. Wish I had a Trigger button to push.

Tried Resetting the project and also detaching and attaching. Neither work. Still have computers stuck on the slow IS.
I guess I have to learn how to configure an app_info file to force the correct IS.

ID: 2207 · Reply Quote

Aurum
Send message
Joined: 18 Jul 18
Posts: 97
Credit: 291,386,295
RAC: 0

Placing this app_info.xml file in my project folder switched from avx to fma:

<app_info> <app> <name>gene_pcim</name> </app> <file_info> <name>gene_pcim_v1.10_linux64__fma</name> <executable/> </file_info> <app_version> <app_name>gene_pcim</app_name> <version_num>110</version_num> <avg_ncpus>1.000000</avg_ncpus> <flops>6420118510.968211</flops> <plan_class>fma</plan_class> <api_version>7.9.0</api_version> <file_ref> <file_name>gene_pcim_v1.10_linux64__fma</file_name> <main_program/> </file_ref> </app_version> </app_info>

Has a different Application Name displayed in BoincTasks but it seems to be working good so far.

ID: 2209 · Reply Quote

Keith Myers
Send message
Joined: 26 Jun 20
Posts: 64
Credit: 15,299,594
RAC: 0

Yes, that is the brute force method.

Good job constructing a valid app_info.xml without dumping all your work.

Helps that all the apps have the distinct plan_class and basic naming schemes.

But as has been mentioned you will only gain maybe 400-600 seconds better times at best.

ID: 2210 · Reply Quote

Aurum
Send message
Joined: 18 Jul 18
Posts: 97
Credit: 291,386,295
RAC: 0

And I get a better Application Name: gene_pcim (fma)
It only makes sense that all i9s should work best using the same instruction set. Now to sort out the i7s and Xeon E5s.
From what I've seen on i9 new builds that start with a fresh slate and run the test over all 3 instruction sets I'm seeing 7% improvement of fma over avx and 4% for fma over sse2.

ID: 2211 · Reply Quote

klepel
Send message
Joined: 13 Sep 17
Posts: 4
Credit: 89,201,015
RAC: 0

Placing this app_info.xml file in my project folder switched from avx to fma:

<app_info> <app> <name>gene_pcim</name> </app> <file_info> <name>gene_pcim_v1.10_linux64__fma</name> <executable/> </file_info> <app_version> <app_name>gene_pcim</app_name> <version_num>110</version_num> <avg_ncpus>1.000000</avg_ncpus> <flops>6420118510.968211</flops> <plan_class>fma</plan_class> <api_version>7.9.0</api_version> <file_ref> <file_name>gene_pcim_v1.10_linux64__fma</file_name> <main_program/> </file_ref> </app_version> </app_info>

Has a different Application Name displayed in BoincTasks but it seems to be working good so far.

A wish came true! I will try this app_info on my AMD 3950x, hope this will change the WU from sse2 to fma.

ID: 2213 · Reply Quote

Yuriy Naydenov
Send message
Joined: 22 Jun 19
Posts: 6
Credit: 5,284,099
RAC: 0

On my FX-8370, FMA jobs fail.
http://gene.disi.unitn.it/test/results.php?hostid=49138&offset=0&show_names=0&state=6&appid=

ID: 2326 · Reply Quote

Jim1348
Send message
Joined: 29 Dec 16
Posts: 87
Credit: 21,013,002
RAC: 0

It only makes sense that all i9s should work best using the same instruction set.

From what I've seen on i9 new builds that start with a fresh slate and run the test over all 3 instruction sets I'm seeing 7% improvement of fma over avx and 4% for fma over sse2.

As far back as my log goes, to 6 June, my i9-10900F was running avx. Then on 17 June it switched over to sse2, with no obvious change in the run times.

I will try forcing it to fma. I don't want to wait until Christmas to see what happens.
As I recall, my i7-8700 ended up on fma eventually, as did my Ryzen 3000s. For some reason, this project favors Intel. That is not always the case.

ID: 2327 · Reply Quote

Jim1348
Send message
Joined: 29 Dec 16
Posts: 87
Credit: 21,013,002
RAC: 0

As far back as my log goes, to 6 June, my i9-10900F was running avx. Then on 17 June it switched over to sse2, with no obvious change in the run times.

I will try forcing it to fma.

FMA brought it down from 3:17 (with avx or sse2) to 3:10. Nice, but no big deal.

ID: 2328 · Reply Quote

bozz4science
Send message
Joined: 17 May 20
Posts: 29
Credit: 1,815,574
RAC: 0

How would the app_info.xml file look like for a Win10 machine? Tried various ways, but none worked for me. Any pointer highly appreciated. Thx

ID: 2330 · Reply Quote

valterc
Project administrator
Project tester
Send message
Joined: 30 Oct 13
Posts: 623
Credit: 34,677,535
RAC: 9

On my FX-8370, FMA jobs fail.
http://gene.disi.unitn.it/test/results.php?hostid=49138&offset=0&show_names=0&state=6&appid=

That was the main reason I kept FMA for Windows as beta. I guess that in your case a MB BIOS upgrade might help.

I moved the FMA/Win64 app out of beta a few days ago, to see if the old problems were solved, I will probably switch it back to beta...

ID: 2331 · Reply Quote

Yuriy Naydenov
Send message
Joined: 22 Jun 19
Posts: 6
Credit: 5,284,099
RAC: 0

On my FX-8370, FMA jobs fail.
http://gene.disi.unitn.it/test/results.php?hostid=49138&offset=0&show_names=0&state=6&appid=
I guess that in your case a MB BIOS upgrade might help.

ASUS Sabertooth 990FX R2.0, BIOS latest version 2901.

ID: 2333 · Reply Quote

valterc
Project administrator
Project tester
Send message
Joined: 30 Oct 13
Posts: 623
Credit: 34,677,535
RAC: 9

On my FX-8370, FMA jobs fail.
http://gene.disi.unitn.it/test/results.php?hostid=49138&offset=0&show_names=0&state=6&appid=
I guess that in your case a MB BIOS upgrade might help.

ASUS Sabertooth 990FX R2.0, BIOS latest version 2901.

Well, I don't know how to solve your particular problem... In the meantime I moved the FMA Win64 application to beta again. If someone would like to give it a try please enable beta applications in your TN-Grid preferences.

ID: 2334 · Reply Quote

Yuriy Naydenov
Send message
Joined: 22 Jun 19
Posts: 6
Credit: 5,284,099
RAC: 0

On my FX-8370, FMA jobs fail.
http://gene.disi.unitn.it/test/results.php?hostid=49138&offset=0&show_names=0&state=6&appid=
I guess that in your case a MB BIOS upgrade might help.

ASUS Sabertooth 990FX R2.0, BIOS latest version 2901.

Well, I don't know how to solve your particular problem...

Never mind! )

ID: 2335 · Reply Quote